Source : Perth Now news
Experts have no reliable way to measure whether an extremist is likely to reoffend, a court was told as it weighs up releasing one of the so-called ISIS brides on bail.
Kawsar Ahmad fronted court in Melbourne on Monday, a week after her co-accused daughter was denied bail.
Ms Ahmad, 54, faces four slavery charges for allegedly keeping a slave from the persecuted Yazidi ethnic minority and teaching her religious studies while living in Syria and supporting Islamic State.
The court heard a full day of evidence and arguments on Monday, will reconvene on Tuesday for more submissions and a bail decision is scheduled for Thursday.
Ms Ahmad’s lawyers argued the grandmother disavows Islamic State following the deaths of her sons and brother, wants to live a peaceful life after six years in a refugee camp, and is in the process of divorcing her husband who’s in custody in Iraq.
Prosecutors argue her alleged act of enslavement formed part of Islamic State’s crimes against humanity.
Her lawyer offered bail conditions that Ms Ahmad would not engage in religious instruction and would not be involved with any mosques.
Ms Ahmad’s lawyers called a forensic psychologist to give evidence Monday, who told the court that because only 1.6 to 2.9 per cent of extremists reoffend, there is no reliable risk assessment tool.
Forensic psychologist Michael Davis said he interviewed Ms Ahmad at length about her mental state, previous radical views and her current views on Islam.
“I would think it very unlikely, just because she held those views a decade ago, that they’re going to resurface.
“The fact she lost two brothers and a son … that’s probably contributed to her negative views of Islamic State.”
Ms Ahmad had a host of post traumatic stress and major depressive symptoms, Dr Davis said.
Chief Magistrate Lisa Hannan questioned if Dr Davis believed Ms Ahmad could follow her sons and brother to martyrdom.
“No. I don’t at all. She’s not going to kill herself. That’s against her more moderate views of Sunni Islam. I don’t see that as any ‘last resort’ type thinking,” Dr Davis said.
“Re-radicalisation is vanishingly rare and there’s no literature about it.”
Under cross-examination, Dr Davis said he had never deradicalised an Islamic extremist, but had worked on assessments of many radicalised Australians.
“She comes across as a very damaged person who wants to be with her family and has a dim view of Islamic State.”
Dr Davis’ expert evidence was that because such a small proportion of people who have been radicalised and convicted go on to reoffend, the sample size to base a reoffending risk assessment tool upon is too small.
“I’m very cautious. I looked very hard for things that would give me pause when it came to Mrs Ahmad and I really couldn’t find anything.
“Most people who kill someone do not become serial killers.”
Ms Ahmad’s brother has offered a $75,000 bail surety against his family home, and told the court he would call the police immediately if his sister broke any bail conditions.
“I’m a moderate Muslim. I denounce Islamic State. My family does not support Islamic State; never have, never will. This has nothing to do with Islam,” her brother told the court.
On Monday, Ms Ahmad’s lawyer told the court her estranged husband was the “principle offender”, and that Ms Ahmad travelled to Syria via Turkiye when her husband took a second wife.
The grandmother, her daughters and grandchildren spent six years in refugee camps before returning to Australia this year.
The court was told there was no evidence Ms Ahmad tried to indoctrinate anyone while in the camps in Syria’s northwest.
Her lawyer, Peter Morrissey SC, argued the Australian government could have charged her earlier, and that delay on top of the at least three years it will take for a trial were reasons for bail. The lawyer also read out an unequivocal disavowment of the terrorist group from Ms Ahmad.
Australian Federal Police agent Marc Clendenning gave evidence from a statement by the allegedly enslaved woman.
“I told them I did not want to take religious studies. Kawsar told me if I did not study my end would be in hell.
“I was not allowed to practice my own religion. If I missed prayers, they would beat me,” the alleged victim says.
Making submissions for bail, Mr Morrissey said the Islamic Society of Victoria had written to the court acknowledging Ms Ahmad’s situation, including her willingness to not attend any mosques.
“She’s going to be living a very confined and peaceful life – that’s her wish,” Mr Morrissey said in arguing for bail.
Ms Ahmad was in the process of divorcing her husband, which had been delayed in the absence of their original marriage certificate.
“She wishes to practice her religion at home in peace,” Mr Morrissey said.
“She’s fair dinkum. She wants to behave … she is game for any restriction to be in place and she would like to show she is worthy of the trust (of bail),” her lawyer said.
The Magistrates Court will convene again on Tuesday to hear more evidence on the bail application, and Chief Magistrate Hannan said she expected to hand down a decision on Thursday.
